tv The Last Word MSNBC November 4, 2012 10:00pm-11:00pm PST
unscrupulous credit card company or mortgage lender. and then there are some things we actually think government shouldn't be involved with, for example, we don't think politicians in washington should be controlling health care choices. women are perfectly capable of making themselves. now, colorado, for eight years we had a president who shared these beliefs. his name was bill clinton. and his economic plan asked the wealthiest americans to pay a little bit more so we could reduce our deficit and invest in the skills and ideas of our people. and at the time, you may be surprised to learn that the republican congress and a senate candidate by the name of mitt romney said bill clinton's plan would kill jobs. kill the economy. turns out their math back then was just as bad as it is now.
because by the end of president clinton's second term, america created 23 million new jobs. incomes were up. poverty was down. our deficit had become a surplus. so colorado, we know our ideas work because they've been tested. they've been tried. and we also know that the other folks' ideas don't work because they've been tested. after bill clinton left office, for most of the last decade, we tried giving big tax cuts to the wealthiest americans that we couldn't afford. we tried giving insurance companies and oil companies on wall street the license to do whatever they pleased. and what we got was falling incomes and record deficits. and the slowest job growth in half a century. and an economic crisis that we've been cleaning up after ever since. so we've got ideas that work, got ideas that don't. we've tried both. we should be able to make a pretty clear choice, but you got
to give him credit, governor romney is a pretty talented salesman. and in this campaign he has tried as hard as he can to repackage the same old bad ideas that didn't work and offer them up as new ideas. he says they're change. he -- he says they're change. now, here's the thing. we know what change looks like. and what he's selling ain't it. giving more power to the biggest banks is not change. giving another $5 trillion tax cut that favors the wealthy, not change. refusing to answer questions about the details of your policies until after the election is over, that's definitely not change.
ruling out compromise by pledging to rubber stamp the tea party's agenda in congress, not change. >> not change! >> changing the facts when they're inconvenient to your own campaign, well, we've seen that before. that's not change. >> not change! >> you guys get the idea. not change. look, here's the thing. you know, part of a presidential race is about policy. and part of it's about trust. you've got to have a sense of whether or not the person means what they say and say what they mean. and the thing is, colorado, after four years, you know me. you may not -- you may not agree
with every decision i've made, but michelle doesn't either. you may be frustrated sometimes by the pace of change. guess what? so am i. but you know what i believe. you know where i stand. you know i tell the truth. and you know that i will fight for you and your families every single day as hard as i know how. so, colorado, i know -- i know what real change looks like because i fought for it. because i delivered it. because you've worked with me and lifted me up to be able to get some stuff done that is important to folks all across this country. you know what real change looks like. i've got the scars to prove it. i've got the gray hair to show
you. i appreciate that. so after all we've been through together, we can't give up now. let me paint for you the change we still need. no, no, no, this is the change we want. you missed your cue on this one. change, real change, is a country where every american's got a shot at a great education. you know, and that means parents, you have to parent, and students, you got to study. but don't tell me that hiring more great teachers won't help grow this economy. of course it will. don't tell me the students who can't afford college should just borrow money from their parents. that wasn't an option for me. i'll bet it's not an option for a lot of you.
and that's why i want to cut the growth of tuition in half over the next ten years. i want to recruit 100,000 math and science teachers so our kids don't fall behind. i want to train 2 million americans at our community colleges with the skills that businesses are looking for right now. that's how we're going to grow. that's how we create jobs. that's what change is. that's what's at stake in this election. that's what we're fighting for in this election. change comes when we live up to this country's legacy of innovation. you know, i'm very proud that i bet on american workers and the american auto industry, but i'm not just proud because we're building cars. i'm proud because we're building better cars. cars that by the middle of the next decade will go twice as far on a gallon of gas.
that helps our economy. that helps or pocketbook. it helps our national security. it helps our environment. but we don't want to just stop innovating there. there are thousands of workers today building long-lasting batteries and wind turbines and solar panels all across the country. i want to make sure instead giving subsidies to oil profits i want to support the energy jobs of tomorrow, the new technologies that will cut our oil imports in half. i want to stop giving tax breaks to companies that reward -- tax breaks that reward companies that are shipping jobs overseas. reward companies that are investing here in america. in the next generation of manufacturing. that's how we grow an economy. that's how we create jobs. that's what i see for colorado. that's what i see for our future. change, real change, is turning the page on a decade of war.
so we can do some nation building here at home. you know, as long as i'm commander in chief, we will pursue our enemies with the strongest military the world's ever known, but it's time to use the savings from ending two wars to pay down our debt. rebuilding america, repairing roads and bridges. making sure our schools are state of the art, putting people back to work right now. especially our veterans, because anybody who has fought for our freedom should not have to fight for a job or a roof over their heads or the care that they need or the benefits they've earned when they come home. that's how we keep ourselves strong, by keeping our commitments to those who sack f sacrificed so much. that's also what's at stake in this election. change is a future where we reduce our deficits in a
balanced, responsible way. you know, i signed $1 trillion worth of spending cuts. i intend to do more. but if we're serious about reducing our deficit, we can't just cut our way to prosperity. there are some things we need to do to make sure we grow and put people back to work and that means we've got to ask the wealthiest americans to go back to the tax rates that played when bill clinton was in office. now, the reason is because budgets are priorities. they reflect our values. i'm not going to kick a kid off of head-start so i can get a tax break. i don't need it. as long as i'm president, i will not turn medicare into a voucher just to pay for another millionaire's tax cut. that's not true to who we are. and that's not how we grow an economy. so, colorado, we know what real change is .
we know what the future requires. by the way, we also know it won't be easy. now, back in 2008, we talked about change. but i wasn't just talking about changing presidents. i wasn't just talking about changing parties. i was talking about change in how we run our politics. i ran because the voices of the american people, your voices, had been shut out of our democracy for way too long by the lobbyists and the special interests, the politicians who will say anything and do anything just to keep things the way they are. the protecters of the status quo. you know, the status quo in washington is fierce and it has fought us every step of the way. they spent millions of dollars to try to stop us from reforming health care. millions of dollars trying to stop us from reforming wall street. they engineered a strategy of gridlock in congress, refusing to compromise even on ideas that
in the past both democrats and republicans agreed on. that's why we've got republicans opposed to a health care plan that started as a republican idea. implemented by a republic an governor. and what they're counting on now is you're going to be so worn down by all the squabbling, so tired of all the dysfunction, just fed up, that you give up. and you walk away. and you leave things the way they are. and you put back those folks who've been protecting the status quo all these years back into power. in other words, their bet is on cynicism. but, colorado, my bet's on you. my bet's on you. the common sense, the decency of the american people. and, you know, the fact is, what
we're describing is not partisan. it doesn't have to be. you know, we're not democrats or republicans first. we're americans first. and when the other party has been willing to work with me to make sure that everybody's got a shot, i am right there with them. like when we cut taxes for middle class families and small businesses. when we came together to repeal don't ask, don't tell. we had courageous republican senators who helped. i will work with anybody of any party to move this country forward. if you want to break the gridlock in congress, you'll vote for leaders who feel the same way. folks, whether they're democrats, republicans, independents, people who put their constituencies first. people who put folks who are out there working hard trying to
live out their american dream. put them first. but sometimes, you know, there's going to be conflict. sometimes bringing about change is going to go up against the status quo and we have to be willing to fight for what we believe in and what we care about and what's built this country. in the price of peace in washington is cutting deals that will kick students off of financial aid, or get rid of funding for planned parenthood, or let insurance companies discriminate against people with pre-existing conditions or eliminate health care for millions who are on medicaid, who are poor or elderly or disabled, i'm not willing to pay that price. that's not bipartisanship. that's not real change. that's surrender. to the same forces that have squeezed middle class families for way too long. and i'm not ready to give up on the fight. and, colorado, i hope you aren't either.
i hope you aren't either. see, the folks at the very top in this country don't need another champion in washington. they'll always have a seat at the table. they'll always have access. they'll always have influence. we understand that. but the people who need a champion are the americans whose letters i read late at night. the men and women i meet on the campaign trail every day. the laid off workers who's gone back to a community college at the age of 55 trying to get trained in a new career. she needs a champion. the restaurant owner who's got great food but needs a loan to expand. the bank turned them down. he needs a champion. the cooks, waiters, working staff working overtime at a denver hotel trying to save enough to buy a first home or send their kid to college, they need champion. the auto worker who thought he'd never be back on that assembly
line and now with pride and dignity is building a great car, he needs a champion. you know, the young immigrant brought here when they were a child, pledging allegiance to our flag, gone to our schools, know themselves to be americans through and through, except for a document. they need a champion. all those kids in inner cities and small farm towns, in valleys of ohio, the hills of colorado, kids dreaming of becoming scientists or doctors or engineers or entrepreneurs, businesspeople, diplomats. maybe even a president. they need a champion in washington. because they don't have lobby t lobbyists. the future will never have as many lobbyists as the status quo does, as vested interests do, but it is the dreams of those
children that will be our saving grace. and that's why i need you, colorado, to make sure their voices are heard. to make sure your voices are heard. we have come too far to turn back now. we've come too far to let our hearts grow wary. now's the time to keep push forward, to educate all our kids, train all our workers, create new jobs, rebuild our infrastructure, bring our troops home, care for our veterans, broaden opportunity, grow our middle class, restore our democracy, make sure that here in america, no matter who you are, where you come from, how you started out, what you look like, it doesn't matter whether you're black or white, hispanic, asian, native american, young, old, rich, poor, able, disabled, gay, straight, here in america you can make it if you try. that's why i need your vote. that's what we believe in.
that's why we're pushing forward. and if you're willing to work with me and knock on some doors with me, make some phone calls with me, turn out for me, colorado, we will win this state. we'll win this election. we'll finish what we started. and we'll reaffirm the spirit and the bond that make the united states of america the greatest nation on earth. god bless you. god bless america. go out and vote. >> you've been listening to the president there speaking at his last campaign stop in aurora, colorado, ahead of the election. the president there talking about a myriad of different domestic issues. everything from health care, to the economy, education, the environment, also talking a bit about the auto industry. but mostly campaigning on his signature ideas of hope and change. the president, tonight, will be
making an appearance alongside dave matthews, the musician. and, of course, again, this is his final stop on the campaign trail. aurora, colorado, is where the president is at tonight. i'm veronica de la cruz in the msnbc newsroom. thank you so much for joining us. we want to get you back now to a special edition of "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell. >> with 40 for mitt romney. politico says today enthuse wrachl is key that is key to ohio. if he keeps ohio, it's because of the automobiles and the fact that you can see automobiles on the street. you can see chrysler and dodge cars on the street. that's tangible and that is probably his best piece of tangible legislation. former dnc chair howard dean
joins me. >> joining me now is howard dean, former chairman of the democratic national convention and former governor of vermont. thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me on. i particularly like, you have the power that the president talked about. that was from 2004. >> indeed, indeed. governor dean, let's talk about the ground game here. there's been a lot of analysis in the months and days leading up to this. in terms of number of field offices, i mentioned 125 to 40 in terms of offices in ohio, the obama campaign says they've reached 125 million people, and reported that the romney campaign has only reached 50 million. that seems to be a disproportionate disadvantage. >> nobody has ever done this better than the obama campaign and their game is even better than it was in 2008. so i expect we're going to win. i think we're going to win iowa and ohio. >> let's listen to what john boehner, from ohio, said today. he gave his prediction on fox news this morning.
>> forget everything that's been said about the obama ground game. the romney ground game is bigger and more sophisticated than anything i've ever seen. polls don't decide elections, voters do. >> just to be clear, you're guaranteeing a victory for mitt romney in ohio? >> no question in my mind. >> the speaker seems to be saying the romney campaign is incredibly sophisticated, even more so than the obama campaign and says we have enthusiasm on our side. i think it's one or the other. but in terms of the enthusiasm question, what do you make of it? is it really momentum? >> i don't think it's real momentum. the other thing he didn't mention that they have in florida and ohio is the
secretary of state is on their side, who happens to be a very partisan individual. that could be a problem, because we're very, very anxious about an honest voting process. they have done everything they can to discourage voting. it has to be a fair election. we've got to be sure it that's a fair election. we're going to be very aware of that. but people have really gotten excited about this president. the president himself has gotten more excited, which i always like to see. and the third piece about this is the republicans have made some major missteps. it's almost impossible to figure out what mitt romney stands for. you get this sense of passion and i think as you point out, it's really hard to figure out who is mitt romney, this is why the salt lake city gave their endorsement to president obama. so this is mitt romney talking about his moderate self, his self that got along with those democrats in massachusetts and
there you get all that fire behind making sure that women don't have the ability to choose. >> i guess my question is, there's been talk about the gender gap. the huffington post says basically that bump among women was the residual effect of the first debate. when you look at the split among unmarried women, the president is womping, which i believe is an official term. but he's leading by 25% among single women. it's married women where romney is ahead by ten points. i don't understand how any women can be in favor of a candidate like this. >> the question should always be which women, because women have never operated as a bloc.
>> it is rather shocking that when given a multiple choice test, they throw away the pencil. >> the greatest quote ant this is ted kennedy versus mitt romney in 1994 in the debate, when kennedy said i'm the pro choice candidate, mitt romney is the multiple choice candidate. >> he nailed it. that is a clip that should be on loop. thank you for joining me this evening. >> thanks for having me on. coming up, the fight for control over the senate. who is likely to hold on and who has absolutely no chance at all. and where does that missouri race stand right now?
former president bill clinton is making nearly as many stops as president barack obama this weekend. his effect on the 2012 race and why he still matters. but first, the balance of power and the senate races. what changes and what stays the same after tuesday night? that's next. [ mother ] you can't leave the table till you finish your vegetables.
in the spotlight. the battle for control of the united states senate. the democrats hold a 53-47 majority and for most of 2012, the map favored the republicans. they had fewer seats to defend than the democrats, they were in a better position in the seats they were defending and a number of vulnerable democratic seats. but two days before the election, the democrats are in position to hold their majority, thanks in part to two conservative candidates that
made rape an issue. in indiana, a new poll shows the democratic congressman joe donally with an 11-point lead over richard murdoch. in that poll, murdoch is being dragged down by a 49% unfavorable rating when he said, "pregnancies from rape are something that god intended to happen." and akin's unfavorable rating is 56%. he said would could not become pregnant from a rape. he said, if it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to shut that whole thing down. the democratic firewall could get a boost in massachusetts. in perhaps the hottest senate race of 2012, republican senator scott brown now trails elizabeth warren. a new western new england university poll shows warren leading brown by four points, 50% to 46% in massachusetts. joining me now, joy, in terms of the murdoch and akin races, they can't help but stepping in it and now it seems like the chickens are coming home to roost. >> absolutely. thanks to something called crazy, democrats will hold on to
the senate. the thing about it is, it's ripped the veil off of something that i think a lot of the younger women, a lot of democrats didn't know or want to think about, you have a hard core religious conservative element within the republican party that believes women shouldn't be making decisions about their health care. >> and that women should be dragged around by their hair and so forth. >> indeed. i'm predicting that mccastle will do better. a lot of republican women, i have a feeling some will turn. >> the departure of senior republican leadership happened very quickly. and yet it seemed like akin has gotten a $2 million infusion into his campaign, partly from roost. >> absolutely. thanks to something called crazy, democrats will hold on to the senate. the thing about it is, it's ripped the veil off of something that i think a lot of the younger women, a lot of democrats didn't know or want to think about, you have a hard
core religious conservative element within the republican party that believes women shouldn't be making decisions about their health care. >> and that women should be dragged around by their hair and so forth. >> indeed. i'm predicting that mccastle will do better. a lot of republican women, i have a feeling some will turn. >> the departure of senior republican leadership happened very quickly. and yet it seemed like akin has gotten a $2 million infusion into his campaign, partly from donations, part of it may be from republican leadership that is terrified they're going to lose seats. they just kind of started saying -- what do you make of that? >> it's a good way of putting it, it was his to lose, because then he went out and did lose it. the same thing is true with murdoch.
that was his race to lose. that was in the "r" column. that was his to lose, and bam, he went out and he lost it. but we talked about this before. national republicans and national democrats are amoral when it comes to who they're going to support. their primary driver is they that was in the "r" column. that was his to lose, and bam, he went out and he lost it. but we talked about this before. national republicans and national democrats are amoral when it comes to who they're going to support. their primary driver is they want somebody who can win. so with just a couple days left, the inclination is to get behind them and it looks like national republicans did put some money into the akin race.
>> joy, we find 2010 in the midterms, the republicans were running these extremist candidates, people that did not have a chance on the national stage, yet they seem to have not learned their lesson. these are two examples of you take these fringe candidates, they're not going to win. >> i think if you listen to the noise on the right, there's always been this sense if we can just stop running these wishy washy rhinos, we could win. the closed loop is so sealed on the right, i don't think there's a self-awareness. there was a clammer to get these pure conservative candidates on the ballot and it came from the tea party. so the tea party was a blessing and curse for the republicans. it energized older voters, who didn't like barack obama. but the down side to the tea party is they are insisting what they see as conservative candidates and are married to the religious right. these guys like murdoch didn't
lose any support from the religious right. >> arizona has been really interesting. this is a seat the republicans have held for two decades and there's a chance the democratic challenger could take that away and in some part that's due to the fact that the language around immigration has been so divisive. here you have a democratic candidate who at one time served george w. bush, but is a safe haven for latinos. >> he does have a decent chance there. for those very reasons, despite how far right arizona is, it stays as a deep red state because the latino population is growing and the tea party opposition to those folks is so strident that it's not going to moderate itself.
that's the big problem that the kind of gop establishment has with the tea party. the tea party they often don't care if they lose. they would rather die trying. they would rather put an akin or murdoch or christine o'donnell in there. they would rather put that up and go down, whereas the gop establishment is like no, let's put up moderates that can win. even though when the gop establishment did win in wisconsin, tommy thomson is now getting hammered. >> especially given the fact that scott walker has quite the infrastructure in wisconsin. the question is, joy, when it's all said and done, if they lose
these seats, will they say it is time to purge these radical elements from our party? >> i think it won't happen. the radical elements are calling the shots. all of the money that we've seen come into politics after citizens united, most has gone to enforce strict party discipline on the republicans. the people most afraid of the tea party are people like john boehner. the base is so dependent on getting those people excited, they're not going anywhere. >> joy reed and ryan grim, thank you for joining me tonight. if you want more, i will be dorking out and following the senate races on election night starting at 6:00 p.m. with rachel, chris, lawrence, ed and al tuesday night. coming up, the bill clinton
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as you can see, i have given my voice in the service of my president. >> what was once a relationship of political necessity has blossomed into a full-on presidential bromance. the relationship between president obama and former president bill clinton has been on full display on the campaign trail. after four events between wisconsin and ohio on thursday, president clinton was in florida on friday, first in lake worth, then speaking to supporters in ft. myers. next st. petersburg outside of tampa before ending in tallahassee.
then yesterday, president clinton shifted his focus to virginia, beginning his morning in chesapeake and ending his day in bristow about an hour outside of washington, d.c. he there introduced president obama to a crowd of supporters. before the president made his case to virginia voters. today, the presidents started a four-state double team strategy. in new hampshire in front of 14,000 supporters, president clinton was moving on to north carolina. because president clinton can't be in two places at once, he let his words speak for him in iowa. he wrote --
>> anna marie cox, it is striking how much this relationship has warmed up in the last four years. >> it is. at first, you could tell clinton was being a good soldier. he was going out and doing what he needed to do, wasn't having maybe the best time. over the past year, i think we've seen clinton starting to have the good time he always has, and that turning into, yeah, a bromance between the two of them. like that last rally, think did the high five. they're getting there.
>> let's talk about the fact that they are getting along better is a good thing, but clinton and his appeal to a class of voter that the president has not been able to crack, which is white working class voters. >> that's right. we saw that bill clinton is obviously making these appearances in person in these swing states. but i was down in south carolina, and that clinton ad where he talks about obama is running nonstop in south carolina, not exactly a swing state. but again, i think if you look at bill clinton, he is a singular figure in american politics. there is no comparable figure in the republican party and he can appeal across the board to latinos, african-americans, college educated white people. and that is why you see him out there front and center and he
plays an important role in terms of advising the obama campaign in terms of strategy. november 9 of last year, there was a meeting where bill clinton advised them to frame mitt romney as a severe conservative rather than focusing on his flip-flopping across the issues. and that is what you've seen play out over these last many months. >> anna, the usage of fleetwood mac is a nostalgic piece, but the president mentions clinton as a sort -- harkens back to the golden era of america where we had surpluses and everybody was happy. but is a departure of where he's been previously. >> it's true. i think that, yes, like that
clinton period people remember fondly. people do not remember the george bush period fondly. his instincts on the stump are obviously just amazing. the speech he gave last night, there's no other politician with the amplitude that clinton has. >> each in that op-ed, you have it ending with a more perfect union, going from very sort of hard hitting political tact -- >> he can go from blue grass to opera in a single paragraph. >> republicans are scared of bill clinton. michele bachmann and her campaign sent this note to her
supporters. fellow conservatives, no time to explain, i just got word that bill clinton is coming to my district to campaign against me. i need you to support right away. as though he's a hurricane all by himself. >> that's interesting. republicans have in some ways embraced bill clinton, as well. one of the oddest moments was hearing newt gingrich praise bill clinton. i was like, did you live through that presidency where there was such loggerheads? so i think it backfired with them embracing bill clinton as a moderate and trying to frame president obama as carter, because that was very much poking the bear, and the bear very much bit back. >> the bear has woken. thank you both for joining me tonight. >> thank you. coming up, more evidence that moderate mitt is a complete myth.
here is what he says about women's rights behind closed doors and it is not about the binders. we're going to try to stump some political junkies with questions from bing elections. do you know where your polling place is? maybe somewhere around my house. mine's just, right over that way. well you can find out exactly where it is using bing elections. it's a good day for politics. which way do you lean politically? conservative. republican. well, using the bing news selector you can find news from whichever way you lean. (together) social on this side, financial. which party is currently predicted to win a majority in the senate? the republicans? would you make a bet on that? no. are you chicken?
i went to a number of women's groups and said can you help us find folks and they brought us binders full of women. >> that was mitt romney touting his record on women during the second debate. here is a 2007 video of mitt romney talking about his real record on women when he thought he wasn't being recorded.
>> joining me now, my friend and colleague, msnbc's melissa harris-perry. right there, you got it, i vetoed anything to do with choice. there's been a lot of discussion where mitt romney stands on issues critical to women and women's reproductive rights. there you have that video clip that says it all. >> suspect he so much more fascinating and interesting when he doesn't realize he's on camera? it's like the 47% comment. you get this sense of passion and i think as you point out,
it's really hard to figure out who is mitt romney, this is why the salt lake city gave their endorsement to president obama. so this is mitt romney talking about his moderate self, his self that got along with those democrats in massachusetts and there you get all that fire behind making sure that women don't have the ability to choose. >> i guess my question is, there's been talk about the gender gap. the huffington post says basically that bump among women was the residual effect of the first debate. when you look at the split among unmarried women, the president is womping, which i believe is an official term. but he's leading by 25% among single women. it's married women where romney is ahead by ten points. i don't understand how any women can be in favor of a candidate like this. >> the question should always be which women, because women have never operated as a bloc. but it's appalling in this election cycle where what you see what's driving the gender gap is race, youth and as you point out, unmarried status. so if you are married, middle class, white woman, your likelihood of supporting mitt romney is high. the idea that group of people
would not see their open interest or their daughter's interest or their sister's, one need not opt in to abortion. it's just that sense of being an adult citizen who can make their own decision. >> and even beyond just the choice question, there is stuff like the lilly ledbetter act, where you have a candidate who cannot answer the question. again, women voting against their best interest. >> i'm convinced there's a group of women for whom the so-called privileges of patriarchy are still quite seductive. the why of what you need is a
strong man who will give you cover. don't worry, i know you don't want to work, rather than a sense of that full citizen equality, which is about the ability to make choices for yourself. >> that's mirrored so precisely in romney's speech. i love this clip, because i think it says it all. let's listen to what he had to say about work flexibility in the second debate. >> i recognize that if you're going to have women in the workforce, sometimes they need to be more flexible. my chief of staff had two children in school and i can't be here until 7:00 or 8:00 at night. so we said fine, let's have a flexible schedule so you can have hours that work for you. >> i recognize if you're going to have women in the workforce, make a concession.
>> all parents need flexibility and all humans need flexibility. so fathers would also like to go home to see their kids. going home early is the main thing that you think of when you think of women workers? >> being able to cook. >> i was like, i can't comprehend what that life is, that he is imagining this this woman is leading. i've known a lot of women in my life and this feels so alien to me, that version. >> so of my best friends are women. there are so many confusing questions when it comes to mitt romney. thank you so much. again, i am alex wagner in for lawrence o'donnell. tomorrow at noon, senator barbara boxer will join me to